IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE A COMPARISON, DIESEL VS NATERAL GAS. DIESEL IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FUEL PER VOLUME AND IS RELATIVELY SAFE AND EASY TO USE. NATUERAL GAS IS LIGHTER THAN AIR, SO IT WILL FLOAT AWAY. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE BTU STORAGE PER CUBIC FOOT. BTU PER LBS OF TANKAGE. I AM BETTING IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO GET ENOUGH BTU'S INTO A DIESEL ENGINE TO PRODUCE THE SAME HP AS DIESEL. NEW HEAVY LIFT ROCKETS FROM SPACE X ARE USING FUEL SIMILAR TO DIESEL. THE RETIRING SHUTTLES USE HYDROGEN, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO NATURAL GAS. THE TANKAGE IS MUCH LARER THAN THE AIRFRAME.
I don't know enough to comment, but that's probably why brown UPS trucks and state truck fleets are the ones switching, rather than the heavy semis that most of use think about when talking about trucks.
My hunch is that it will be the non-semi trucks that are first to switch. But the state of Wyoming has mandated the switch, and UPS has announced the corridor. Smarter folks than I have probably thought this through.
We have had at least one natural gas filling station here in Minneapolis for 30 years. The vehicle tanks are "crash-worthy". Converting gasoline type engines is fairly easy. A lot of the "teeter-totter" working oil wells are powered by natural gas engines.
Utah is the most aggressive with natural gas conversion of vehicles. With a car the fuel range is reduced by 50%. Next off the typical conversion costs around $3K for a car. Natural gas remains a gas like welding oxygen or SCUBA air. All are compressed to 3,000 PSI. Compression causes heat so it takes more time to refuel than with gasoline or diesel.
You can set up a system for overnight or home refueling but couplings tend to leak so it is best if the vehicle is outdoors or outside rather than in a "tuck under" residential garage.
It can be done but a lot of "hassle" more than cost. In the case of UPS, natural gas could be refilled at night. There could be matching meters on each side that would "phone home" if there is a delivery disparity. Money more than technical problems. It would be fun to design a system but not that difficult. Mostly the hassle factor.
If states have mandates UPS can potentially have local surcharges built in. I live one mile "west of the Mississippi and UPS used to have east and west of the Mississippi rates. I used to fudge on this but now UPS uses my zip code.
According to my very questionable wikipedia research a gallon of diesel fuel contains the BTU energy of around 70 cubic feet of natural gas. The big Oxygen welding tanks hold 200 cubic feet or (if filled with natural gas) three gallons of diesel fuel BTU equivalent. With gasoline equivalent you might push four gallons.
Basically, the five foot high welding oxygen tanks would hold three gallons diesel, four gallons gasoline equivalent. You could go aluminum or high tech composite but you would not get under the size or under 100 pounds. This is around four times the weight of gasoline or diesel.
The "holy grail" with abundant natural gas is conversion to gasoline or diesel component liquid fuels if this can be done. In the meantime, natural gas will mostly be urban delivery. It is very low emissions.
IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE A COMPARISON, DIESEL VS NATERAL GAS. DIESEL IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FUEL PER VOLUME AND IS RELATIVELY SAFE AND EASY TO USE. NATUERAL GAS IS LIGHTER THAN AIR, SO IT WILL FLOAT AWAY. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE BTU STORAGE PER CUBIC FOOT. BTU PER LBS OF TANKAGE. I AM BETTING IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO GET ENOUGH BTU'S INTO A DIESEL ENGINE TO PRODUCE THE SAME HP AS DIESEL. NEW HEAVY LIFT ROCKETS FROM SPACE X ARE USING FUEL SIMILAR TO DIESEL. THE RETIRING SHUTTLES USE HYDROGEN, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO NATURAL GAS. THE TANKAGE IS MUCH LARER THAN THE AIRFRAME.
ReplyDeleteI don't know enough to comment, but that's probably why brown UPS trucks and state truck fleets are the ones switching, rather than the heavy semis that most of use think about when talking about trucks.
ReplyDeleteMy hunch is that it will be the non-semi trucks that are first to switch. But the state of Wyoming has mandated the switch, and UPS has announced the corridor. Smarter folks than I have probably thought this through.
We have had at least one natural gas filling station here in Minneapolis for 30 years. The vehicle tanks are "crash-worthy". Converting gasoline type engines is fairly easy. A lot of the "teeter-totter" working oil wells are powered by natural gas engines.
ReplyDeleteUtah is the most aggressive with natural gas conversion of vehicles. With a car the fuel range is reduced by 50%. Next off the typical conversion costs around $3K for a car. Natural gas remains a gas like welding oxygen or SCUBA air. All are compressed to 3,000 PSI. Compression causes heat so it takes more time to refuel than with gasoline or diesel.
You can set up a system for overnight or home refueling but couplings tend to leak so it is best if the vehicle is outdoors or outside rather than in a "tuck under" residential garage.
It can be done but a lot of "hassle" more than cost. In the case of UPS, natural gas could be refilled at night. There could be matching meters on each side that would "phone home" if there is a delivery disparity. Money more than technical problems. It would be fun to design a system but not that difficult. Mostly the hassle factor.
If states have mandates UPS can potentially have local surcharges built in. I live one mile "west of the Mississippi and UPS used to have east and west of the Mississippi rates. I used to fudge on this but now UPS uses my zip code.
According to my very questionable wikipedia research a gallon of diesel fuel contains the BTU energy of around 70 cubic feet of natural gas. The big Oxygen welding tanks hold 200 cubic feet or (if filled with natural gas) three gallons of diesel fuel BTU equivalent. With gasoline equivalent you might push four gallons.
Basically, the five foot high welding oxygen tanks would hold three gallons diesel, four gallons gasoline equivalent. You could go aluminum or high tech composite but you would not get under the size or under 100 pounds. This is around four times the weight of gasoline or diesel.
The "holy grail" with abundant natural gas is conversion to gasoline or diesel component liquid fuels if this can be done. In the meantime, natural gas will mostly be urban delivery. It is very low emissions.
Again, a very good post, thank you. Lots of issues but we will see how the UPS experiment works out.
ReplyDelete